We had to sell the house, the apartment, another ranch, and the this and that . . . After five years of this, Roberto said to me, "Pati, we are crazy. If you are not making an income, and I'm not either, we have to stop. We are finishing with our savings."

When we were with no money at all – AT ALL – just in that moment, we had a new governor in the state that was my friend – childhood friend – and he started helping us. And he was a friend, and he was a very sensitive person for nature, no?

It was a blessing, because after that the program grew, with his help. For the first time, I had a little money to pay the promoters and to have formal teachers in the environmental program, and just like that, no?

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